Frommers.com Podcast: Goin' Fishing in . . . Brazil

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• Fishing: Xingu River
• Shopping: Vero Peso in Belem

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

Announcer: Welcome to the frommers.com travel podcast. For more information on planning your trip to any one of thousands of destinations, please visit www.frommers.com.

Mark: This podcast is sponsored by VisitLondon.com. To plan and book the perfect London vacation, go to London's official website, VisitLondon.com.

David Lytle: Hi, welcome to the Frommer's Travel Guides podcast. Today we're talking with Mark Natov, who is the editor of our Brazil guide, amongst other guides. Mark, hi.

Mark Natov: Hi, how are you doing?

David: Doing well, thank you. And yourself?

Mark: Very well, thanks.

David: Good. So you've just recently come back from Brazil. Tell us a little bit about the trip. Exactly what did you do there? Where did you go?

Mark: I flew into Belem, which is a city in Northern Brazil and I spent a couple of days there. Then I went to fish for about five days on the Xingu River which is one of the main tributaries of the Amazon.

David: Wow a fishing trip to Brazil. I never would have considered that. How did you get from Belem to the boat that you were on?

Mark: We flew from Belem to Altamira, which is a provincial city. It's about 48 miles I think from the fishing lodge where we were staying. From Altamira you can take a charter flight to the lodge itself. It has a tiny airstrip. Or you can take a complimentary van from the lodge. We actually did the van, which was pretty fascinating itself because we got the chance to go over the Trans Amazon Highway.

David: Oh wow.

Mark: Yeah it gave us an opportunity to see some of the Amazon, some of the forest, and unfortunately a lot of the deforestation.

David: Really? I was going to ask are you just surrounded by rain forests? But you're actually going through parts of the landscape that have just been stripped of the forest.

Mark: Because you're along the highway its offered easy access to a lot of loggers so you have, besides the highway they're basically stripped of virgin forest. But as you get closer to the lodge you get more patches of wooded land. The last twelve miles of a private road go to the lodge and you start to see more of an intact rain forest and the lodge actually has a plot of land around it that has some virgin forests and some fruit groves as well. So they grow a lot of their own fruits and vegetables for the guests.

David: Oh wow! That sounds fantastic. Not the deforestation part, but the fact that they're growing the food that they're actually serving to their guests.

Now did you go through a charter company? Who arranges something like a fishing trip in the Amazon?

Mark: I went with High Hook Fishing Tours. They operate the lodge that I visited. Basically, once I got to Brazil they took care of everything from the flight from Belem to the lodge and then everything once we got there. So it was really great in that its all-inclusive, but you're doing really fantastic things like fishing on the river or exploring some of the surrounding rainforests. You really get an opportunity to forget about all of your cares and you're taken care of, and really just experience a fascinating part of Brazil.

David: The Xingu Lodge, is it fairly high end? Is it rustic? What is the setting like actually within the lodge?

Mark: You have to remember this lodge is totally off the grid. They are powered by generators.

David: OK.

Mark: So you have a really unique place where you are really in the middle of the rain forest. You have all the modern luxuries. You have air conditioning, cold drinks, ice. That's pretty amazing. It's not something you'd see at say, The Four Seasons, but its more like a rustic, relaxed kind of luxury, which is really phenomenal.

David: Right. That actually sounds fantastic and pretty amazing that they've basically built something so remote yet they're able to offer some modern amenities if you want to consider electricity to be a modern amenity.

David: Right, it is, and actually they even finagled a satellite TV out there.

Mark: [laughter]

David: So you really have everything you could possibly want. [laughter]

Mark: Right. Just in case you've got to catch that game back home. Now, have you fished much before?

David: Yeah, I've always fished with my family a bit. I wouldn't say I'm a huge fisherman, by any means, but you know, it's certainly something that I do occasionally.

Mark: So what are you fishing for on this go?

David: Yorarai, actually. The big prize catch there is usually the peacock bass, which is really strong fighter. And it can be a pretty huge fish, so they put up a very nice fight, and a lot of the fly fisherman really, really like to go after them.

Mark: What do they typically weigh? Like, what's a good-sized big mouthed bass?

Mark: From off the top of my head, I think five pounds minimum would be normal.

David: That's a big bass.

Mark: Yeah it is.

David: So other than peacock bass what else.

Mark: Well you have a lot of catfish there. You can catch huge catfish. When I was there I caught a 27-pounder.

David: Wow.

Mark: Yeah and they're just incredible. They're beautiful fish. You have to remember this part of the Amazon, Altamira where you fly in to get to the lodge, it's where people collect the tropical fish that go into tropical fish tanks. A lot of the fish that you are catching are the adult versions of smaller fish that you would buy in the pet store. So the colors are just amazing. Its really like, when you're reeling something in its a surprise to see what's on the end of the line and often times its a delightful surprise.

David: [laughs] Right. Now is this a catch a release program or do you catch and then were you able to have the lodge prepare the fish that you caught?

Mark: Actually, they run a catch and release program so that they preserve their fishing stocks. I believe they buy their fish from a local market, so that also helps support the local economy, which is really great.

David: Right, exactly. Its good to bring a business in and then sort of lift everybody else up in the surrounding area. Now what did you do besides fishing?

Mark: Besides fishing, you have a few options. You can relax at the lodge; the lodge is actually set on a bluff overlooking the river, so it's really a pleasant place just to sit down, lay in a hammock all afternoon and read a book and watch the river flow by. You know, they have a nature trail that they've carved out through the rainforest. The fishing guides are really knowledgeable of the area, a lot of them have grown up nearby and some of them actually live off the river when they're not doing tours! So they have a lot of great firsthand knowledge of the flora and the fauna in the area.

So one afternoon we actually spent several hours just walking through the forest. And the wildlife you can see is just amazing. We saw scarlet macaws, blue macaws, and several different groups of howler monkeys.

David: Awesome!

Mark: And the neat thing is even as you're fishing everyday, you're passing through the rainforest and you have all these birds flying overhead. And in the distance you can hear what sounds like a super highway, but it's actually these monkeys hollering at one another! It's incredible; it sounds like eighteen-wheelers going down I-95 or something.

David: Did you have any scares with the flora or fauna while you were down there? I know that rainforests are beautiful but they can be dangerous places.

Mark: I'm not too squeamish about bugs or animals in general, so the only things that are out of the ordinary was a tarantula that was walking around the porch of the lodge. I guess if you weren't expecting that it'd be creepy, but I thought it was really interesting. Apparently, in the region area they have pink-toed tarantulas which made them somehow less threatening.

[laugh]

David: Right, like they're dressed up a little bit.

Mark: Exactly. When we were walking through the woods actually, it was really interesting, our guide told us to stop and he said that he could actually smell that a snake had crossed the trail near where we were. But unfortunately, we didn't get to see it.

David: He could smell that a snake had crossed the trail.

Mark: Yeah, it's incredible! Actually, our guides are telling me that some of the Indians in the area can actually tell what kind of snake it is just by the smell.

David: Wow! Much more attuned to their surroundings than I guess, you or I are.

Mark: Definitely.

David: I've just never heard of anybody smell a snake before. To me that sounds...

Mark: Completely blew me away.

David: What's the cost for staying in the lodge? Or for this fishing trip in general, I assume the fishing and the lodge are all part of a package.

Mark: Right, right. Well, the lodge, from the moment you step of the plane in Altimera to the moment you leave, the complete cost is 3100 dollars, so that includes everything except hard liquor. All of your meals, your guides, they really thoughtfully pack a picnic, kind of like snacks, while you are out fishing. So you can get a cold soda or a beer or little snacks through the day.

Then the only additional expense would be tipping the house staff and your guide, which normally is fifteen dollars a day for each. The costs are pretty minimal once you're there.

David: Right, so 3100 plus tips for six or seven days, it comes out to about four hundred dollars a day. Which is not exorbitant considering that you are so remote. I mean, some listeners have to consider that while we typically advocate finding the most affordable way to get somewhere, to go to someplace as remote as this, there's some additional cost involved in it.

Mark: Right, exactly. And the thing is there are a lot of options out there for going to explore the Amazon. The problem is to find something that is really authentic and isn't putting a burden on the local ecosystem. You could spend easily four hundred dollars in a mega lodge, that's really unfriendly to the environment. But here you are actually making a difference, you're supporting the economy, you're supporting the preservation of the forest, and you're having a really unique experience.

One thing that was really nice about the lodge is they're an expanding operation, and they're quietly acquiring plots of land as they get more money, so they're protecting all this area around them for the watersports and the fishing. So you really feel like you're making a positive difference by supporting such an organization.

David: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's tourist dollars that actually benefit the region that they're going to, which is nice, as opposed to simply going to a person who owns a hotel or sits on the board of an airline.

Mark: Exactly, exactly, and particularly in Brazil. I mean there's not a really kind of long-term vision with protecting the environment, so your tourist dollars and your input make a huge difference.

David: I think its really important when you're going anywhere in the Amazon in general, to let your lodge know that you're looking for a botanist or a biologist or someone who has a lot of experience dealing with the nature in the area. In the end its going to make your experience a lot more fulfilling, and you're supporting education; the preservation of the resource.

David: Absolutely. You're investing in the preservation of the place that you're going to. You're not there simply to see it, trample on it and then walk away.

Mark: Precisely.

David: Which has unfortunately been the case in the past for many parts of the world.

Now outside of the Amazon, you said you spent a couple of days in Belem. How did you do that? What did you do there? What was your impression of the area?

Mark: Belem is actually on the corner, on the mouth of the Amazon, where it meets the ocean. So it's a really fascinating city. One thing about the Amazon region that you have to remember is that the rivers function like Highways. So, where you have the river meeting the ocean, you have a traditional spot where it'd be easy for people to transfer goods, like fruits or vegetables or whatever, to the market and subsequently out to sea.

So in Belem, you have this incredible market called Vero Peso where all these local people come and sell their vegetables and fruits. You can buy anything there, from exotic fruits you've never seen to like monkey skulls. Just completely bizarre.

David: Why would somebody want a monkey skull?

Mark: The verdict's out on that, and I would advocate actually not buying them because you're contributing destruction of the rain forest or at least a whole tribe of poor little monkeys. There are also environmentally friendly things you could buy there like pottery and locally made crafts that don't include the wholesale slaughter of wildlife.

David: A good point to make. What sort of advice do you have for people, in general, for planning a trip to Brazil? I would like to follow that up with: what are your top tips for people who are going to visit the country?

Mark: I would say the most important thing is to really search for your airfare well in advance because once you get to Brazil it's a pretty cheap destination so I think once you get that hammered out you really have a lot of flexibility with your budget. So this is one thing that I think is really important. The other thing is to really just relax once you are there. Brazil is a third world country so you have a lot of poverty and there is a lot of disorganization so you cant expect things to work as they would in the US. So I think you have to kind of check your expectations when you want things speedily there. They have a saying in Brazil "ego fryo" which means chill out or relax and I think that really needs to be your motto when you are there.

David: So that's good advice. Look for your airfare ahead of time to save money and then once you are there just relax.

Mark: Exactly, its your vacations and things are going to get it done, it just may take a little longer or be a little more complicated than you had initially thought. That goes for just if you're on your own. If you're going with the tour company or with High Hook Tours, everything's really taken care of, so you can really relax all that much more.

David: Right. Well it looks like that's all the time we have for today.

Mark: OK.

David: So Mark, I'd like to say thank you.

Mark: You're welcome.

David: It's been very informative; I've enjoyed our talk.

[music]

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