Despite the enduring popularity of Tuscany and Umbria, it's still possible to escape to these regions and enjoy your trip like you're the only one visiting. Frommer's travel guidebook author and Italy expert John Moretti joins host Kelly Regan to offer tips on beating the museum crowds, advice on finding accommodations in the charming suburbs of Florence and give a brief introduction to Tuscan wines. John also reveals his favorite Tuscan town and shares a story about a funeral -- for a steak.
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Top Tips from This Podcast
See transcript below for links to more information.
- Uffizi: Avoid early mornings. Wait until an hour or two before they close to avoid the bus tour crowds.
- Where to base: Staying in Florence a while? Try staying in Prato or Pistoia for cheaper accomodations.
- Best time to go: End of April, May, Beginning of June. Most festivals around Cortona happen at this time.
- Cinghiali: Wild Boar in all forms. Traditional Tuscan meat.
- Restaurants to try: Dario Cecchini, Il Latini, L'osteria di Giovanni.
- Time Crunch: Maps may be misleading, it will take you longer than you think to travel. Budget your time accordingly, ask locals how long it should take to get from A to B.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
Kelly Regan: Welcome to the Frommers.com travel podcast. For more information on planning your trip to any one of thousands of destinations, please visit us at www.frommers.com.
Hi, and welcome to the Frommers.com podcast. Latest in our continuing conversations about all things travel. I'm Kelly Regan, editorial director of the Frommer's Travel Guides, and I'll be your host today.
My guest is John Moretti who's the author of our Frommer's Guides to Tuscany and Umbria and also to northern Italy. He's here today to talk about some of his favorite Tuscan experiences and to give some tips on how to avoid crowds now that the summer travel season is in full swing.
John, welcome. Thanks for being here today.
John Moretti: Thanks. Pleasure to be here.
Kelly: Tuscany is such a lovely place, as you and I both well know, and so much has been written about it. Tuscany and Umbria. It's sometimes hard to get away from the Frances Mayes "Under the Tuscan Sun" or your "Room with a View" cliches. What I find curious is that you say in the Frommer's Guide that Tuscany represents an escape for you, a way to leave behind the grind of everyday life. What's your very favorite thing to do in Tuscany, something that might surprise people?
John: Yeah, it sounds funny to call Tuscany an "escape" these days, especially if you're walking down the Ponte Vecchio and you're shoulder to shoulder with literally hundreds of other tourists. But Tuscany's a big place. And especially some of the outlying parts of southern Tuscany, and particularly the Maremma, that's one of my favorite places in Tuscany. That would be the cowboy country south of Siena. That's generally where I go to unwind. It's a very quiet place. There's horseback riding, you can hang out in thermal spas, you can walk the chestnut orchards or olive groves. So there are places you can find in Tuscany, and you just have to do a little bit of research before you head out.
Kelly: That's one thing that I thought we could talk about is that summer is obviously high season for travel to Italy, and you are going to really encounter crowds in places like Florence and Venice and even Siena and other bigger towns in Tuscany. So for people who are traveling over the next few months who will be traveling for the summer, do you have any advice about avoiding the crowds, or at least minimizing the hassle for dealing with crowds in places that they might be likely to go?
John: Yeah, well, unfortunately if you're constrained with summer vacation, so are a lot of other people and frankly, if you're going to Florence, you're just going to have to be massively prepared for a lot of crap. It's the catch 22. You want to tell people, look, if you're going in July and August, don't go to Florence because there's going to be too many people there. But if it's the first time that they've been to Italy, you can't very well tell them not to go to Florence.
So, just be immensely prepared for that. If you have to go to Florence, there are some ways to make sure that the crowds don't ruin your vacation and obviously the first thing that people want to see, especially first time to Florence is Uffizi...
Kelly: Uffizi.
John: ...and Accademia, right.
Kelly: Right.
John: And those lines can be incredibly long in the summertime. But there is a number you can call where you can get tickets ahead of time and it's the easiest thing in the world. If you reserved a ticket, you just walk right up to a window that generally has no line, then you walk right in. It's the same thing with the Accademia.
Kelly: I think the other thing that people might not be aware of who are going to places like the Uffizi or the Accademia is that the groups, the crowds, often come from big tour bus groups. And a lot of the scheduling for these tour groups, they want to Blitzkrieg through the museums early in the morning.
And so, first thing in the morning might seem like a logical time to go to a museum to kind of get there before the crowds do, but that's actually when the crowds are getting there. So it actually might make more sense, I think, when I went to the Uffizi I waited until one or two in the afternoon and actually we didn't have to wait in line, we just went right up and got our tickets.
John: That's very true. Now, early mornings are probably the worst time to go. I think even one or two in the afternoon is pretty dicey. Best thing to do is to wait an hour before closing. I mean, unless you go ahead and, again, make reservations. Wait an hour or two before it closes. There's no line, and frankly, I think most people that want to see Uffizi just want to see Botticelli, Caravaggio, and the Accadamia. They just want to see David. And they will take an hour to do those kinds of things. Yeah. Just wait, and right before it closes, you walk in, you have the place almost to yourself. That's one thing you can do in Florence.
Another trick, I think, if you're set on going to Florence for a while, is maybe not to spend the night there, and to go out to a place like Prato, which is only about 15 minutes away on the train.
Kelly: OK.
John: Hotels are cheaper, and you can get into Florence in 20 minutes. You don't have to deal with the crowds on regular basis, and just go and see the things that you want to see. That's best for people, maybe, in their 30s, or maybe families. People who want night life are probably going to want to stay in Florence for the night, because frankly, there's just not much to do in places like Prato and Pistoia.
Kelly: Sure. Yeah. I imagine that, in those outlying areas, you'd have some more expansive, charming places to stay as well.
John: Absolutely, yeah. And they cost probably half of what they do in Florence. And again, it's very, very close. You look at a map, you might say, "Oh, it's going to take a bit." But they're suburbs. But Kelly, in general, if you're going in July and August, just be prepared to deal with a lot of people.
Kelly: Suck it up! [laughs]
John: Suck it up, because there's no way around it, unfortunately.
Kelly: Yeah, yeah.
John: Go earlier. Go later.
Kelly: When is your favorite time to be in Tuscany?
John: Well, I think a lot of people have also discovered that end of April, May, beginning of June, is really the best time to visit. That's when a lot of the festivals are happening, around Cortona. In Arezzo, Giostra del Saracino is more in June and July, they have their big festivals. In general, April and May are a great time to go. Unfortunately, people have started to discover that.
As far as the countryside goes, probably the best time to go is in September or in October, when they're harvesting.
Kelly: Yeah. Right.
John: The harvesting happens at any time, but if you actually want to see some grapes in those vineyards, you should probably think about going much later in the summer, and early fall.
Kelly: Right, right. Now, I can imagine that would be a fantastic time to go. And you mentioned the grapes. I want to ask you for a minute, do you have a favorite Tuscan wine? There are so many great Tuscan wines. Although, I think most people hear about the ones that are more in the northwest part of the country, the Barolos and things like that. But there are some really fantastic Tuscan wines to recommend.
John: Well, I could sit here and talk for an hour about Tuscan wine and bore people to death...
Kelly: [laughs]
John: And I do a little bit of writing on that; I know a bit about Tuscan wines. Do I have a favorite one?
Kelly: Yeah.
John: I have a few favorites. Obviously, anything from Bolgheri, the area just south of Livorno along the coast, are some of the most prestigious wines now. Sassicaia, Ornellaia: people who go out to nice restaurants in the cities probably have heard of those before. There's also, obviously, the Brunello di Montalcino, and the Rosso di Montalcino and Montepulciano. All of these are pretty famous wines now, probably eclipsing Chianti Classico, to some degree.
Kelly: Right.
John: But Chianti has made some great strides in recent years. And I have to tell you, this whole place is just wine crazy these days. You can't walk around without seeing another wine tour.
Kelly: Wow.
John: Another tasting. But it's very good. It's great for people who are interested in that sort of thing.
Kelly: That's great. One of my favorite wines is not Tuscan, but more Umbrian. The last time I was in Tuscany, I was introduced to Orvieto Classico, which is a white wine. And the last time I was in Tuscany, it was during a heat wave, and I can't tell you how refreshing it was. [laughs] This cold bottle of Orvieto Classico at lunchtime. And it made the afternoon a little bit loopy, but it was so refreshing when it came.
John: Yeah. There's definitely a temptation to spend your whole afternoon in Orvieto sitting in one of the outdoor cafes there, having a little bit of "liquid gold," as it's called.
Kelly: Yeah. [laughs]
John: With some rabbit and olives.
Kelly: And it's something that you can find in just about any wine store in the US, and it's a surprisingly affordable wine.
John: Yeah, more and more. I think Est Est Est was probably one of the biggest producers and distributors in the United States of that, but these days, they're all showing up. So yeah, you can find Orvieto, you can find Grenando, you can find Cantele.
Kelly: Yeah.
John: You can even find some of the stuff that, five years ago, you would never have been able to see without going to Italy.
Kelly: Yeah, I know. That's fantastic. I also wanted to talk to you a little about... I mean, if we're talking about wine, we should probably also talk about food. I know that you also mentioned in the book that one of your favorite experiences is to eat--and I hope I'm pronouncing this right--cinghiali.
John: Cinghiali, right.
Kelly: Cinghiali. Can you talk a little bit about that, what it is and how it comes and the best way to eat it and things like that, just what it is you like about it?
John: Sure, yeah, that was kind of an unusual experience. Obviously, anybody who goes to Tuscany is going to see cinghiali on at least 50 percent of the menus. It's sort of what Tuscany is famous for, which is wild boar. And it can come as a sausage, it can come as cold cuts, usually ground up in part of a ragu sauce. It's everywhere.
In this particular instance I was on top of Monte Amiata, there's a small ski area there, in Monte Amiata, which is in southern Tuscany. I was hungry, at mid-day, and I was sitting next to a snack bar that had wild boar sandwiches. I got plopped down on this bench and next to me, sure enough was this stuffed wild boar with big tusks coming out of it. It's very traditional Tuscan meat.
Kelly: Great.
John: Tuscany is best known for its meat. Italy is not well known for its meat, but Tuscany certainly is.
Kelly: Sure, and I think it's mostly game, a lot of game in Tuscany.
John: A lot of pheasants, a lot of rabbits, but probably best know for its T-bone steak there, the fiorentino.
Kelly: Oh, bistecca fiorentino, yeah.
John: Right, which was banned a couple of years ago because of the mad cow disease.
Kelly: Oh, wow.
John: Yeah, I think it was in 2003 that they reintroduced it on the menus. So if you're interested in T-bone steak, don't worry. It's back on the menus.
Kelly: That's right, that's right. Do you have a favorite restaurant right now in Tuscany?
John: Boy, there are a lot of them.
Kelly: It's probably hard to say.
John: No, but, I do have a few favorites. There's one that just opened up. Let's put it this way: he's my favorite butcher.
Kelly: OK.
John: I think he's everybody's favorite butcher in Tuscany. It's called Dario Cecchini. He's quite famous now. In fact, he held a mock funeral for the fiorentino steak when it was banned.
Kelly: [laughs] R.I.P.
John: Yeah, he's a real media character and he also has an excellent butcher shop in Panzano, Chianti, which is in central Chianti. He's just opened up a new restaurant which is a fantastic place in terms of the decor. He carved it out of this medieval building and put in glass tables and modern art and the best part about it is, A) you bring your own wine, which is sort of a rarity in Italy, and secondly, you only pay 40 Euros, flat fee, no matter what you eat.
Kelly: Wow.
John: And that's important because restaurants are really very expensive in Tuscany.
Kelly: Right. Certainly, with the Euro not being so strong against the dollar right now you have to be concerned about that.
John: Yeah, it's hard to find the deal. You are looking at 1.3 to -- that is a dollar and 32 cents to --the Euro, if not more. So that means that a 220 double is going to cost me $300. That makes a considerable dent in your budget.
Kelly: So, what's the name of the restaurant again?
John: Oh gosh, you would ask me that. Know I just don't know. It's right across the street.
Kelly: [laughs]
John: He just opened it up about two months ago. Just across the street from Dario Cecchini butcher shop in Panzano. Panzano is a tiny town and if you ask anybody where Dario Cecchini is, they'll walk you there.
Kelly: They'll know, right.
John: I know what the name of it is. It's called Solo Ciccia - "only fat."
Kelly: OK.
John: Which is unusual because obviously there's some lean meats there too.
Kelly: Sure, sure.
John: Can I tell you a couple of other restaurants that I like?
Kelly: Yeah, sure, sure.
John: In Tuscany there are two----He's one of the famous guys in Chianti, probably the most famous family in Florence, although there are loads of restaurants in Florence, probably the most famous family is the Latini family. Ninety-five year old guy, Lacusa Latini, runs the restaurant of the same name, called Il Latini, which a lot of people know.
However, his son, the one who did not inherit Il Latini, opened up his own place, just down the street, on Via del Moro, called L'osteria di Giovanni. It's run by him. He's married an American woman from Hawaii. They have two daughters who studied in the United States. They're half American, and studied in Paris, a culinary institutes, and they really have a fantastic place there, L'osteria di Giovanni. I go there every time. It's good value and it's slightly more sophisticated then a place like Il Latini and other tourist favorites.
Kelly: Right. What do you like to eat there?
John: Well, the menu changes just about every day. I personally always look for something with rabbit. I wish I had the menu in front of me right now. But certainly something with rabbit. They have excellent seafood dishes. I remember the last time I was there they had squid that was sauted in some white wine with a whole lot of other herbs and stuff that I can't name of the top of my head. But it's a very inventive place. For foodies, that's definitely a stop along the way.
Kelly: OK. Were starting to wind down our time that we have together, but I also wanted to touch on something that I think often stymies a lot of people when they're planning a trip or they actually get on the ground and they are traveling around Tuscany, and that is, how you see the things that you want to see without driving yourself crazy in the process.
If you look on a map, Tuscany seems like kind of a small area, but it's actually a little time consuming to get around because the roads are some two lane roads in areas and there kind of twisty and turny.
John: The roads can be very, very windy, and you look at San Gimignano and Volterra, for example, and it looks right next to each other on a map, and it will take you an hour. You have to talk to people and ask them exactly how long it's going to take to get from here to there. We also give you that sort of idea in the book. So, you are absolutely right. Make sure you know how long it's actually going to take you in a car.
Kelly: Yeah.
John: There are worse fates than being trapped in a car driving around the Tuscany countryside.
Kelly: [laughs]
John: That's one of my favorite parts. So, I don't mind it as much. But, to answer your question a little better, the times, the differences, they are what they are, you obviously have to be very careful when planning out your vacation if you have a limited amount of time. I think you just have to go after what you want to do. If you are a renaissance art buff, then spend your time in Florence.
Kelly: Right.
John: If you like the countryside, then just try to spend as much time as possible down in that place in Southern Tuscany that I was talking about. And don't worry about getting to all of those places. Certainly, there are some things in Florence that you have to see, but my advice is, if you're enjoying your vacation, that's the most important part.
Kelly: Right. I think that's the part that people often miss. They think, "Oh, well, we have to go to Lucca, we have to go to Siena, we have to go to Assisi," and you end up driving hours to get from one place to the next. It becomes about checking things off on your list, instead of about enjoying the experience and the moment. And if you don't see everything that you wanted to see on your first trip, I think there are a lot worse places to go back to. [laughs] You know?
John: Absolutely. I wish there were some places I could tell you that were not worth the trip, but unfortunately, that's kind of hard in Tuscany. But you just have to be focused, you have to know what your interests are and try to make the most out of that.
Kelly: Yeah. Well, we're almost out of time, but I had one more question for you, and I know this is an unfair question, but I'm going to ask it anyway. Do you have a very favorite Tuscan town?
John: I do.
Kelly: Or, Umbrian, or both.
John: Or, Umbrian, right. In my case it's in Tuscany. I told you about my favorite countryside place. My favorite city is Lucca, for a number of reasons. There's the sea right there, there's the mountains right there, a very manageable city. Excellent restaurants, everywhere you look. Great places to stay, all of them pretty affordable.
And I think, most importantly, a lot of people now realize that they want to get some exercise on vacations. They want to get out there and Lucca is great for that. You've got the city walls that you can bicycle around. Just about every hotel will give you a bicycle for free, or for cheap. And, yeah, go out, and you ride around the city walls, see the city, see the mountains outside and then sit down to a well priced, really good meal, in a quaint, little, manageable Tuscan city.
Kelly: Exactly. And it doesn't get better than that. That's great. Well, that's probably all the time we have for today. I've been talking with John Moretti, who's the author of our book, "Frommer's Florence, Tuscany and Umbria." He also writes our "Frommer's Northern Italy Guide" as well. Both of them are on sale now. John, thanks so much for being here, I'm going to be dreaming Italian dreams from now on, not wanting to come back.
John: Well, come over and visit us sometime.
Kelly: Yeah, exactly. Well, thanks a lot and join us next week for another episode of "All Things Travel." I am Kelly Regan, and we'll talk again soon.
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Kelly: For more information on planning your trip, or to hear about the latest travel news and deals, visit us on the web at www.frommers.com. Be sure to email us at editor@frommer.com with any comments or suggestions. This has been a production of Wiley Publishing and may not be reused or rebroadcast without express written consent.
